[00:00:00] Speaker A: Before we begin, fair warning. Nick and I went and saw Orpheus this weekend, so we both have what I'm calling Orpheus brain.
We are not being paid to promote the movie, which is a shame, because I would accept payment in popcorn, but it was excellent. And now every scam sounds like someone yelling. Whatever you do, don't look back.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: It is true.
We walked out of the theater, and sue immediately said, that was beautiful.
And I said, yes.
But the underworld had terrible fraud controls,
[00:00:37] Speaker A: because naturally, your first thought after a tragic myth about love and loss was compliance.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Compliance and romance are closer than people think.
Orpheus had one instruction. Do not look back.
Scam victims get the opposite instruction from fraudsters.
Do not look sideways. Do not call your daughter. Do not call the bank. Do not call the real lawyer. Just keep walking and keep paying. You know you're getting older when the most exciting thing in your mailbox is not a check, not a birthday card, not even a jury summons. It's a glossy brochure promising to sell the timeshare you forgot you regretted buying.
[00:01:16] Speaker A: And if that brochure says, we already have a buyer waiting, that is not a business opportunity.
That is a scammer holding up a neon sign that says, please let me separate you from your savings.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Today on behind the Scams, we're talking about one of the ugliest fraud patterns I've seen in a long time.
A timeshare resale scheme that pulled money out of older Americans with cold calls, stolen leads, fake closing costs, impersonated professionals, and then, when the victims were already hurt, came back pretending to be the people who could rescue them.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: That second part is what makes this so cruel. It is not just theft. It is theft followed by psychological captivity. They take the money, then they take the victim's ability to trust the very people trying to help.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: Let's start with who these criminals targeted. They targeted people who own timeshares, often seniors, many of them trying to get out from under annual maintenance fees or recover something from a purchase that had become more burdened than vacation.
These were not people chasing some wild investment.
They were people trying to solve a problem.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: And the scammers knew that. They knew the frustration.
They knew the embarrassment.
They knew someone might already feel foolish for buying the timeshare in the first place.
So they used that shame as leverage.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: In my years working financial crimes, I saw this over and over.
Fraud is rarely about a single lie. It is about building a little room around the victim where the scammer controls the lighting the exits and the clock.
In this case, the room started with a phone call and a promise.
We have a buyer which is the
[00:03:06] Speaker A: scammer equivalent of your package is delayed or your grandson is in jail.
It sounds urgent, specific and solvable. If you just pay this one little fee.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: And I want listeners to sit with this for a second.
A lot of these victims were not careless. They were tired. They were practical. They were looking at a maintenance bill, a fixed income, maybe a spouse's medical expenses, and thinking, if I could just sell this thing, I could breathe.
That is the pressure point the fraudsters found.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: That is such an important distinction. The scam is not built around greed. It is built around relief.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Exactly. And when a scam is built around relief, it has a different emotional hook. The victim is not imagining a yacht. They are imagining one less bill, one less argument with the kids, one less reminder that a decision they made years ago is still following them around like a debt collector with sunscreen.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: And for the record, if you ever buy another vacation product because someone gives you a free tote bag, I am changing the locks.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: First of all, it was a very nice tote bag. Second, I have matured. I now require at least a tote bag and a breakfast buffet before I make a financially questionable decision.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: Listeners, this is why we have separate passwords and joint supervision.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Joint supervision sounds harsh until you remember, I once bought a leaf blower because the salesman said it was contractor grade.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: We do not have trees.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Preparedness, Sue. Preparedness keeps this family safe.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: If a scammer ever calls, pretending to be the department of leaf Management, I'm taking the phone away from you.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: Here is the first important lesson. These calls did not feel random because they were not random.
In many timeshare frauds, the callers have information.
Names, property details, contract history, maybe even the resort or parcel involved.
That information can come from public ads, data brokers, previous scam lists, or insiders who once worked around the timeshare industry.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: That is why the victim thinks, well, they must be legitimate.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: They.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: They know what I own.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: Exactly.
Specific information creates false credibility.
If someone calls you and says, I understand you own week 32 at this resort and we have a buyer ready, your guard drops. You are not thinking this is a fraudster. You are thinking, finally, someone can help.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: And then comes the small fee, right?
[00:05:51] Speaker B: A modest upfront payment, maybe. It is described as a quirk fee, a closing fee, a courier fee, a title search, a transfer tax, a missing filing fee.
In one version, the hook was around $480.
That number matters because it feels irritating, but manageable. It is Low enough to avoid panic and high enough to start the compliance ladder.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: Compliance ladder. That is a chilling phrase.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: It means once you get someone to take the first step, the second step becomes easier. The victim has now invested money, hope, and ego into the transaction. The scammer is not just asking for cash anymore. They are asking the victim to protect the decision they already made.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: And that first payment, the $480 or whatever the number is, also trains the victim to accept the vocabulary of the scam.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: That is a sharp way to put it. The first payment teaches the victim the language. Closing, transfer, title escrow, courier, court certification.
Once those words feel normal, the scammer can keep swapping nouns and raising prices.
Yesterday it was a title search. Tomorrow it is a compliance bond.
Next week it is a court filing fee.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Amazing how every imaginary office in Scam Scamland has a fee schedule.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: Scamland is very efficient. Terrible ethics, excellent invoice production.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: You know, if Scamland has excellent invoice production, I'm guessing their customer service hold music is just one guy whispering, urgent, urgent, urgent.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: And every menu option is press 1 to send more money.
Press 2 to send more money faster.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Press 3. If you would like to hear these options again, but only after wiring a processing fee.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: Your call is very important to us. Your money is even more important.
Please remain vulnerable.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: So what happens when the victim stops paying? Because eventually people run out of money or patience.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: In a normal business, the file would close.
In a fraud ring, the file gets recycled.
The victim's name becomes a lead with notes attached. Paid once, paid twice. Skeptical, widowed, anxious. Talks to daughter on Sundays. Prefers cashier's check. Afraid of police, desperate to sell.
That information gets traded or passed to another caller.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: So the victim is not just a person anymore.
They are a profile.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: That is right. And then comes what I call the second voice.
It is a new caller, a new company name. Maybe a new accent, maybe a new authority figure. The story changes just enough to feel fresh.
Good news. Your $30,000 payout is ready, but it is being held because there is a missing land title fee. Send fifteen hundred dollars and we can release the funds.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: That is emotional extra extortion. They are dangling the victim's own money in front of them like bait.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: And sometimes the victim believes it because the second voice knows what the first voice said.
They know the amounts. They know the documents. They know the fear that continuity makes the scam feel like a bureaucracy instead of a criminal conspiracy.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: And if the victim says, I need to talk to my son, or I need to ask My bank.
That is when the temperature changes.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: Yes, the caller may stay polite, but the pressure increases. They will say the buyer is impatient. They will say the deadline is today.
They will say the court window closes at five. They will say, if you involve family, you risk violating confidentiality.
That last one is nonsense. But nonsense wrapped in legal language can intimidate people.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: It also turns good instincts into guilt.
A normal person thinks, I should ask someone.
The scammer says, if you ask someone, you might ruin the sale.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: That is why I tell families, if your loved one says, they told me not to tell anyone, you do not need another red flag.
That is the red flag.
Legitimate professionals do not require secrecy from your family, your banker, your lawyer, or law enforcement.
Phase two. The double trap.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: And then it gets worse. Because now they come back pretending to be the cleanup crew.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: This is where the scheme evolved into legal impersonation.
Scammers posed as helpful attorneys or legal representatives and told victims, in effect, you were scammed before, but we can recover your money.
In the Pinellas area case, conspirators stole the identity of real Florida attorney David Eaton and used his name and reputation to make the recovery pitch sound legitimate.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Imagine being the real attorney in that situation.
Your name is being used to hurt people.
Then the victims call you, thinking you did it.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Exactly. And for the victims, the recovery pitch is almost impossible to resist.
They have already lost thousands.
Someone claiming legal authority says, we found the fraud. We can get your money back. But there are court costs, filing fees, bond fees.
That is the double trap. First they sell the fake transaction. Then they sell the fake rescue.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: And if a real police officer or
[00:11:36] Speaker B: investigator calls, the scammers preempt it. They tell the victim, be careful. Fake cops may contact you. Do not talk to anyone else. They are trying to steal the settlement.
That is classic isolation. They cut off family, banks, law enforcement, and legitimate lawyers.
The victim becomes dependent on the only voice that keeps promising a way out.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: That part makes my stomach turn.
Because once the scammer convinces someone that the real police are fake, the victim is trapped inside the scam's reality.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: And that is not a side trick. That is operational security.
Criminals know that banks may ask questions.
Adult children may notice withdrawals. A real attorney may spot fake language.
Police may call.
So the scammers poison the well before anyone else can drink from it. They tell the victim, only we are legitimate.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: Which is exactly why verification has to happen outside the bubble. Not through a link, not through a forwarded document, not through a phone number the caller gives you.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Outside the bubble.
That phrase should be on the refrigerator.
If the caller says they represent a lawyer, go to the state bar website. If they say they represent a court, call the courthouse from a public number. If they say they represent a bank, call the number on the back of your card or on your statement.
If they say they represent a buyer, ask for the buyer's broker and verify that broker independently.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: And when Nick says put it on the refrigerator, he means it literally. Our refrigerator currently has three grocery lists, One grandchild drawing and a note that says do not buy more mustard.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: That note is slander. Mustard is not a problem. Mustard is preparedness.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: Preparedness for what exactly? A hot dog emergency?
[00:13:38] Speaker B: You laugh now when society collapses and everyone needs condiments, Remember who had a plan? People sometimes picture fraud as one person with a phone.
Real schemes often look more like a little criminal supply chain.
There are callers, closers, list holders, document makers, account holders, and runners.
The runner is the person sent to pick up wire transfers, cashier's checks, or cash withdrawals.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: And sometimes those runners are vulnerable people too.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: They can be money mules. Are often recruited because they need cash, have addiction issues, are being manipulated, or are easier to discard.
That does not excuse the conduct, but it explains why top level callers use them. If law enforcement catches the person in the parking lot, the person on the phone is already two layers away.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Criminal management theory, Never pick up your own fraud proceeds.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Exactly. And then there are the distractions.
Victims might be sent to a supposed office that turns out to be an abandoned building.
They might be told to contact a fake bank representative in Dallas.
They might receive documents with seals, signatures and official sounding language.
None of that is accidental. The goal is to exhaust the victim's skepticism.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: If you keep someone busy enough, confused enough, and hopeful enough, they may not stop and ask the simple question, why am I still paying?
[00:15:09] Speaker B: The parking lot pickup is one of those details that sounds almost low rent, but it is sophisticated in its own way. It keeps the caller away from the camera, away from the bank counter, away from the teller's questions, and away from the victim's face.
The person receiving the money may not even know the whole story. They know enough to get paid and not enough to run the organization.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: So when prosecutors build these cases, they are not just proving that money moved. They have to prove the story behind the money.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: Right? A wire transfer receipt tells you that money went from point A to point B. It does not tell you the lie that caused it.
Investigators have to pair the financial trail with phone records, emails, fake documents, witness statements, cooperating defendants, bank Surveillance and sometimes recorded calls.
Fraud cases are built out of patterns.
[00:16:04] Speaker A: And those patterns matter because one victim may feel alone. But 20 victims with the same story show the machine exactly.
[00:16:16] Speaker B: Same pitch, same fee language, same wire instructions, same person picking up proceeds. Same phone number bouncing between victims. That is how what looks like a private embarrassment becomes a prosecutable conspiracy. The case eventually drew fast federal and local attention.
Investigators from agencies including the FBI, the St. Petersburg Police Department and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement worked the case.
In fraud investigations like this, cellular analysis can be critical. Who called whom, when, from where and how. The same numbers tie victims, runners and conspirators together.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: And once one person starts talking, the structure starts to show.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: That is often the break. A caller, a runner or someone lower in the chain realizes the case is bigger than they thought and decides cooperation is better than silence.
In the public record, Mark Boring was sentenced to seven years in federal prison for his role in a telemarketing scheme. With restitution ordered to victims.
Gary Kennard received seven years and 11 months.
Other conspirators pleaded guilty as well.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: Seven years sounds like a long time until you think about the victims reading statements in court.
[00:17:36] Speaker B: Exactly.
Sentencing is where the spreadsheet becomes human again.
Restitution numbers are important, but they do not capture the panic. The marriages strained, the children who had to intervene, the retirees who went back to work.
The people who stopped answering the phone because every ring felt like another ambush.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: And then there is David Eaton, the attorney whose identity was stolen.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: He was not just a name on a fake letterhead. He had to answer calls from victims, explain that he had not taken their money and help route information to law enforcement.
In court, he confronted the man who exploited his reputation.
That matters because identity theft in a fraud case does not create one victim. It creates a chain of victims.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: I keep thinking about the victim impact statements.
Because that is where you hear the part that never fits neatly into a press release.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: That is right. A press release can say restitution.
A judgment can say wire fraud.
A sentencing memo can say loss amount.
But a victim stands up and says, I stopped sleeping. Or I did not tell my daughter for six months.
Or My husband died thinking we were going to get the money back.
That is the real damage.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: And the humiliation is part of the injury.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: It is, which is why we do not use the word sucker on this show.
We do not call victims gullible.
We do not act like fraud is a quiz. Only foolish people fail.
These schemes are engineered. They are rehearsed. They exploit timing, trust, loneliness, fear, hope. And sometimes cognitive decline.
The shame belongs to the criminal. Let me put a face on that picture. A retired couple, we'll call them Robert and Elaine, because their story is drawn from the kind of victim accounts these cases produce, not from one private family's exact Transcript.
Robert worked 38 years. The kind of man who kept every receipt in a shoebox and could tell you what a gallon of gas cost in 1979.
Elaine handled the calendar, the birthdays, the church potluck, sign ups, and the quiet, emotional work that keeps a household stitched together.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: I can see them.
The kind of couple with a drawer full of batteries, three flashlights that do not work, and a garage freezer labeled like a filing cabinet.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Exactly. They were careful people. They were not reckless.
They bought a timeshare years earlier, when retirement still felt like a long Runway.
Then life changed. Travel got harder. Maintenance fees went up. Robert's blood pressure got worse. Elaine started worrying about leaving a financial mess for their daughter.
So when a caller said there was a buyer ready to pay more than they expected, it felt like mercy, not a windfall mercy. The first payment was small enough to explain away 400 or $500 for closing paperwork.
Then came another fee, then a title issue, then a tax clearance.
Robert began driving to the bank alone because he did not want Elaine to worry.
Elaine began hiding the mail because she did not want Robert to feel foolish.
That is one of the quiet cruelties of fraud. It turns a marriage into two people protecting each other from the same lie.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: That sentence hurts two people protecting each other from the same lie.
[00:21:15] Speaker B: By the time the second voice arrived, the fake legal recovery voice, they had already sent thousands.
This new caller sounded different, more professional, calmer. He said the earlier company had been fraudulent, but there was a court action moving forward, and Robert and Elaine were listed as eligible claimants.
All they had to do was pay court costs to release the settlement.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: So the person who finally admits there was a scam is also the scam.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: That is the part that breaks people.
Robert started sleeping in a recliner with the phone beside him because he was afraid he would miss the call. That would fix everything.
Elaine stopped answering her daughter's questions because every question felt like an accusation.
The money was bad enough, but the waiting was worse.
Hope became a punishment delivered one phone call at a time.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: And in court, that is what a judge needs to hear.
Not just the dollar figure, but what the dollar figure did to the inside of a home.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: Yes, a victim impact statement might say, we lost $20,000.
But underneath that is we stop trusting the Phone. We stop trusting each other. We stop trusting ourselves.
Robert no longer wanted to go to church because he was afraid someone would ask how retirement was going.
Elaine cried in the grocery store because she had to put back the brand name coffee they had bought for years.
That is what fraud steals.
It steals the ordinary.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: The ordinary is a bigger word than people think it is.
[00:22:53] Speaker B: And when we talk about restitution, we should be honest. Restitution matters, but it rarely restores the life exactly as it was.
It cannot give Robert back the nights he spent staring at a silent phone. It cannot give Elaine back the ease of opening the mail without feeling her chest tighten. It cannot rewind the moment their daughter found the wire receipts. And everybody in the kitchen realized all at once how long the scam had been living with them.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: And still telling the truth is where the recovery starts.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: That is right.
Not because the truth magically fixes everything, but because secrecy is the scammer's last hiding place.
Once the family knows, once the bank knows, once law enforcement knows, the fraudster loses the private channel they were using to drain the victim.
[00:23:44] Speaker A: I want to tell this from the family side for a minute, because sometimes the person who discovers the scam is not the victim. It is the adult child who sees the crack in the wall first.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: Let's call her Melissa. Melissa is 52, juggling work, her own kids, and an elderly father named Frank.
Frank is a widower, a Korean War history buff, the kind of man who still calls the television remote the clicker and writes Christmas card addresses in a little spiral notebook he has had since the Clinton administration.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: And he is proud.
Not arrogant, proud, independent, proud. The kind of proud that says, I do not want to be a burden, even when he is quietly carrying something too heavy.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Frank owned a timeshare with his late wife. After she died, he stopped using it.
But every maintenance bill felt like another reminder that he was managing life alone.
Then came the call. The caller knew the resort name. He knew Frank had been trying to sell. He said there was a buyer ready and the paperwork could close quickly if Frank paid a transfer fee.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: And Frank probably thought, if I can handle this myself, Melissa will not have to worry.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: Exactly. That is what the scammer exploited, Frank's independence. First it was a fee he could cover from checking. Then a second fee from savings. Then he was told the original company had mishandled the sale, but a legal recovery group had stepped in. This new person used calm words like claimant, docket, escrow, release and settlement fund.
Frank did not understand every term, but he Understood the promise. There was still a way to fix it.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: And then Melissa finds something.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: She comes over on a Saturday to help with groceries and notices bank envelopes stacked beside the toaster.
Not filed, not opened. Cleanly stacked, like someone had been meaning to deal with them and could not bring himself to look inside. One envelope is a withdrawal slip, then another. Then a wire receipt. The amounts are not catastrophic by themselves, but together they form a pattern.
1200-200080-04000.
Another 3000 for court costs.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: That moment must feel like the floor tilts.
[00:26:08] Speaker B: It does. And Melissa's first instinct is anger. Because anger is easier than fear. She wants to say, dad, how could you?
But then she sees his face.
Frank is not defiant. He is humiliated. He keeps saying, I thought I was fixing it. I thought I was fixing it before you found out.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: That is the line that breaks my heart.
He was not hiding it because he did not love her.
He was hiding it because he did.
[00:26:38] Speaker B: That is why the family response matters.
Melissa takes a breath. She sits down. Instead of standing over him, she says, dad, I'm not mad that you told me.
I'm glad. I know we are going to stop this together.
That sentence changes the room.
It does not return the money. It does not erase the fraud. But it turns the secret into a problem they can face side by side.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: And then she does the boring, heroic things.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Exactly. Boring, heroic things save people.
She calls the bank. She freezes what can be frozen.
She gathers receipts, phone numbers, names, emails and voicemails. She helps him file reports.
She calls the real state bar listing for the supposed attorney. She tells her siblings without turning it into a family trial. And most importantly, she changes the rule in the house.
No money goes out in response to a phone call without a second person checking it.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: That is not taking away independence.
That is building a guardrail.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: Right? Families sometimes worry that safeguards feel insulting, but we all use safeguards. Seatbelts do not insult your driving. Password managers do not insult your memory. A second set of eyes does not insult your judgment. It protects your household from someone who studies judgment for a living and then attacks it.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: And in court.
Melissa's statement would not just be about Frank's money.
It would be about watching her father shrink from embarrassment.
It would be about the day he stopped answering calls from old friends because he did not trust himself.
It would be about the way fraud turns a kitchen table into an evidence table.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: And it would be about the restoration that is possible when shame is interrupted.
Maybe Frank never gets every dollar back. Many victims do not. But he gets his daughter back into the circle. He gets the bank involved. He gets the phone numbers blocked. He gets someone sitting beside him when the next call comes in.
That is not a complete victory, but it is a real one.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: Let's bring this home. If listeners have parents, grandparents, neighbors, church, friends or anyone they worry about, what should they do?
[00:29:07] Speaker B: First, make one rule. No upfront fees for a promised timeshare sale, recovery, settlement or government payout without independent verification.
Not verification from the phone number in the email.
Not verification from the caller. Independent verification.
[00:29:25] Speaker A: That means hang up, look up the real phone number yourself and call from a number you found independently.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: Second, verify lawyers through the State Bar website.
Third, verify real estate professionals through state licensing databases.
Fourth, call the resort or management company using the number on a known statement, not the one a stranger provides.
Fifth, if someone says police are fake, that is the moment to contact police through an official public number.
[00:29:57] Speaker A: And families need to make this emotionally safe.
If your parent thinks they will be scolded, they may hide it. If they think you will say, how could you fall for that? They may keep paying just to avoid the shame.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: That may be the most important thing in this episode. Fraud thrives in shame. If someone you love tells you they may have been scared, scammed, the first sentence should be I'm glad you told me. Not what were you thinking? Not I warned you.
Say I'm glad you told me. Let's stop the bleeding.
[00:30:32] Speaker A: Maybe families also need a script because people panic when they find out mom or dad sent money. And panic can sound like blame.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: Here is a simple script. I'm glad you told me. We are going to pause all payments.
We are going to write down every phone number, email address, name, business name and payment method. We are going to call the bank together. We are going to report it. And nobody is in trouble for telling the truth.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: That last sentence matters so much.
Nobody is in trouble for telling the truth.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Then take practical steps. Contact the financial institution.
Ask whether any wire, cashier's check, achievements, card, payment or transfer can be stopped or recalled. Preserve documents. Do not delete emails or texts. Take screenshots. Save voicemails. File a report with local police and with the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center. If the scammer used a real attorney's name, notify that attorney and the State Bar.
[00:31:38] Speaker A: And if the scammer keeps calling, do not negotiate.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Do not confront them to get answers. Do not threaten them. Preserve the evidence and stop the communication.
If law enforcement asks for a controlled call, that is different. But do not freelance an investigation.
Your job Is to stop losses and protect the victim.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: So no family member should go full detective with a burner phone and a legal pad.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: Please do not make me say say that twice.
Preserve evidence report and let trained investigators decide whether contact continues.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: Although, to be fair, you do own a legal pad that makes you look like you are one step away from a stakeout.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: A good legal pad is not a crime.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: No, but the way you label folders might be admissible evidence of being impossible to live with.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: Organization is love in in alphabetical order.
[00:32:35] Speaker A: So the lesson is not never answer the phone. Although honestly, that is not the worst policy.
[00:32:42] Speaker B: I have spent 25 years around fraud investigations and I can confirm voicemail has saved more people than Kale.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: Put that on a mug. I would buy that mug before I bought the Kale mug.
[00:32:55] Speaker B: That is because Kale has terrible branding.
Fraud prevention, however, pairs nicely with coffee and mustard, apparently. One more thing before we close.
If you are listening and this has happened to you, I want you to hear me clearly.
The fact that someone deceived you does not make you weak. It means a practiced criminal found the right moment, the right promise and the right pressure.
The next right move is not hiding.
The next right move is telling someone safe.
[00:33:28] Speaker A: And if you are the safe person, act like it.
Lead with calm.
Lead with dignity.
Lead with help.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Because the fraudster already took enough.
Do not let shame take the rest. The lesson is when someone calls with good news that requires immediate payment, slow everything down.
Fraudsters create urgency because time is their enemy. Give yourself time. Verify independently and bring another person into the conversation.
[00:34:01] Speaker A: And to bring our Orpheus brain full circle. If a caller tells you not to look back, not to look sideways, not to ask anyone else, look everywhere.
Look up the real number.
Look up the lawyer. Look up the state license.
Look up from the panic long enough to bring someone you trust into the room.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: Exactly.
In the myth, looking back costs Orpheus everything.
In fraud prevention, looking around may be what saves you.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: And if this episode made you think of someone, call them. Not with a lecture, with a check in. I'm Nick Henley and before we go, a quick reminder. Behind the Scams is part of the SOS Media Network and we are a registered nonprofit dedicated to helping people recognize, report and recover from fraud.
[00:34:58] Speaker B: If this work has helped you or someone you love and you are able to support it, please consider making a donation.
Your support helps us keep producing victim centered scam education, practical resources and stories that make these crimes harder to hide.
So please visit us on our main
[email protected], and of course our podcast website of BehindTheScams.org all donations are tax deductible.
[00:35:26] Speaker A: This has been behind the scams. Stay skeptical, stay kind, and do not let the second voice talk you into paying for the first lie.
Bye for now.
