Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: She is standing in the frozen food aisle with a bag of peas in one hand when her phone rings. Unknown number. She almost lets it go.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Almost.
That word is going to haunt her.
[00:00:12] Speaker A: Yeah, because her 22 year old daughter is driving that afternoon. So mom answers, and before she can say hello, she hears sobbing. Not generic crying. Her daughter's cry.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: The broken breath kind a parent recognizes before a single word lands.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: Exactly. Sue. Then the voice.
Mom, I messed up. I hit somebody. Oh, God, Mom, I caused a crash.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Boo. And right there, the grocery store disappears.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Gone. No cart, no fluorescent lights, no people comparing yogurt. Her body is suddenly inside that wreck with her kid. Her heart's hammering, her fingers go numb. And she says her daughter's name, which
[00:00:53] Speaker B: gives the caller one more piece of information.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: But she isn't thinking like an investigator. She's thinking like a mother who just hurt her child in terror.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Mick, let me ask you, how long does the daughter stay on?
[00:01:06] Speaker A: Seconds. Just enough. Mom, please help me. Then a man grabs the call. His voice is flat, controlled. He says the daughter hit her car, injured someone, and now she's with him.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: The handler.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: That's what I call him. He takes over the emotional scene the fake daughter just built. He lowers his voice and speaks deliberately.
Do not hang up. Do not call police. If you do exactly what I say, she comes home.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: And if she doesn't?
[00:01:36] Speaker A: He tells her exactly what happens if she doesn't cooperate. Ugly stuff. And once she can picture it. Yeah, her brain starts treating it like it's already happening.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: So the crime scene is not a car. It's her nervous system.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: That's it. In the old virtual kidnapping cases, we heard a woman screaming in the background. And frightened parents sometimes supplied the child's name themselves. Now the voice can sound familiar enough to close that last gap.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Familiar enough that skepticism gets shoved into
[00:02:07] Speaker A: the trunk with the spare tire. The man tells her he knows where she is. He describes a store parking lot, or seems to. He may have pulled a location from social media. Or he may simply be bluffing and listening to her reaction.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: I can see you. Is cheap to say when the victim does the camerawork in her own head.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Exactly. He. He demands money first. A number so large that it knocks the air out of her. $50,000. She says she doesn't have it. He drops 215.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: That sudden discount should sound ridiculous. Kidnapping, ransom now with manager special pricing.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: Darkly ridiculous, yes. But under adrenaline, negotiation feels like proof. She thinks he lowered it, so maybe I can save her.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: And the daughter is still crying somewhere behind him.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: In bursts. Mom, don't let him hurt me. Then the handler comes back. He keeps the mother talking, keeps her moving, and keeps every silence filled with threat.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: No room for the tiny thought, wait, where is my daughter actually supposed to be?
[00:03:10] Speaker A: None. That's the whole setup. Panic, isolation, payment. No breathing rooms in between.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: Ann.
[00:03:17] Speaker A: She's still next to the peas for maybe 30 seconds. Then she abandons the cart and walks out. The bag drops on the floor with a little hard thump. The last ordinary sound before the call takes control.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: That detail gets me. Not the threat, the peas hitting the tile.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Real fear can work like that. Memory may grab one harmless object and pin it to the wall, while everything else becomes a blur.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: What does the handler tell her? Now?
[00:03:43] Speaker A: Get in your car. Put me on speaker, but keep the phone low. Do not speak to anyone. Do not look at anyone. I'll know.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: He won't know.
[00:03:51] Speaker A: Probably not. But she doesn't know what he knows, and that uncertainty is his.
[00:03:56] Speaker B: So she gets into the car.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: She does, hands shaking so badly, she misses the ignition button twice. And the voice that sounds like her daughter whispers, mom.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Oh, boy.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: Then the man says, drive.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: And on that cheerful note, welcome to behind the Scams. If this is your first time here, I'm sue, and that man, calmly saying drive is my co host, Nick.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: Calmly? I thought I was building suspense.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: You were. I'm just warning the new listeners that we're also married. So if you hear arguing, interrupting, or vigorous disagreement.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Now you know why we prefer independent fact checking conducted at close range.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Very close range. And that voice is where this case gets even stranger.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: One quick note before we go further. The story you're hearing is a dramatized composite built from reported voice cloning and virtual kidnapping cases. The manipulation is real. Some identifying details and scene elements have been combined.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: Nick. I mean, where did they even get her voice? She's not a celebrity. She's not narrating documentaries. She's 22.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: A short, clear clip online can be enough to start a public TikTok, An Instagram story, a school video, anything where she's speaking naturally, without much background noise.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: That's the source material?
[00:05:15] Speaker A: Potentially. I asked for oat milk, and this is definitely not oat milk. 10 seconds of ordinary clear voice, casual rhythm, a little laugh at the end.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: We used to worry about posting our address. Now a latte complaint can become evidence in a kidnapping that never happened.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: That's the ugly upgrade. The software grabs the pitch, the rhythm, those little habits that make a voice sound like hers, and then it builds new words around them.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: Say that without the robot brochure.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: Fair. They feed the machine your voice. Then they type words you never said, and the machine says them like you.
[00:05:52] Speaker B: There it is. Horrifying. In English, but quick.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: Reality check. Not every one of these calls is AI Some use recordings on accomplice or just raw panic. In that Arizona case, the mother said the crying sounded exactly like her daughter. Nobody publicly proved how the voice was made.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Which almost makes the point sharper. The criminal doesn't need to prove it's AI the victim only has to believe the voice.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: Exactly. We shouldn't turn the software into magic. Often the audio is compressed, the person is sobbing, the line is noisy, and the words are short. Imperfection hides inside chaos.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: So bad. Phone quality is not a bug. It's a camouflage.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: You got it. And here's the part that would be funny if it weren't so cruel. These operators may have studio grade cloning software and bargain basement acoustics.
Meaning there's a synthetic daughter begging for help. And somewhere behind kidnapper, you hear a rooster.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Wait, hold on a second. A rooster?
[00:06:56] Speaker A: I've listened to fraud calls where the background gives you everything except a street address. Motorbikes, televisions, five other callers, somebody arguing, and yes, farm animals. The future of artificial intelligence meets a guy who refuses to close the window.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: We have your child. Cock a doodle doo, sir. Your criminal enterprise has a barnyard problem.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Yeah, but victims explain the noise for them. Maybe he's outside. Maybe they're moving her. Maybe she's in a warehouse. Fear is an unpaid screenwriter.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: So the voice gets her moving, and while she's driving, she's trying to reach her real daughter. Right.
[00:07:37] Speaker A: She tries. One red light, one thumb, three words. Are you okay? No response.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Which feels like confirmation because the daughter's occupied.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: That's the second call.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: Walk me through that.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: At nearly the same time, another operator calls a daughter. Different pretext. Maybe they claim her phone account is compromised. Maybe they say police need her to stay on the line. Maybe it's a fake delivery dispute. The story varies. The purpose doesn't.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: Keep her from answering. Mom.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: Keep her talking. Confused and unavailable. In virtual kidnapping schemes, the supposed victim is ordered to power down, leave a location or isolate in a hotel. While the family is extorted. The criminals create absence, then sell it as captivity. Sue, I want to step out of the composite for a moment and talk about a documented case from Riverdale, Utah. It shows what create absence, then sell it as captivity. Looks like when the scheme leaves the phone and puts a family in actual danger.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: This is the case involving the exchange student.
[00:08:44] Speaker A: Yes. In December 2023, 17 year old Kai Zhuang, a Chinese exchange student living with a host family in Riverdale, was manipulated by criminal who threatened him and his family. Riverdale police said the scammers ordered him to isolate himself and monitored him through online calls.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: So while Kai was being told his family was in danger, his parents in China were being shown a picture that made it appear their son was held captive.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: Right. Under continuous threats, they sent $80,000 to bank accounts in China.
Meanwhile, police, the FBI, the US embassy in China and Chinese officials were trying to find Kai.
Search teams and drones focused on the mountains near Brigham City, Utah.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: His parents had already been made to believe their 17 year old son was in the hands of kidnappers. Then they had to wait while search teams looked for him in the cold, not knowing whether the next call would bring proof he was alive or something no parent could bear.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: He was alive. But the police chief described him as very cold and scared. He had limited food and water and no heat source beyond a heat blanket.
Think about what that family was left carrying. $80,000 gone. The image of their son posed as a hostage and the knowledge that while they were desperately trying to save him, the criminal's instructions had placed him where exposure could have killed him. The kidnapping was fabricated. The possibility of losing their child was not.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: That is such a sinister little machine. One collar manufactures panic, the other manufactures silence.
[00:10:24] Speaker A: Back in our composite, the two outputs reinforce each other. Mom calls, busy. Mom texts. Nothing. The handler says, see, you can't reach her because she's with me.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Except he caused the thing he's claiming as proof.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Exactly. We used to call it controlling the verification channel. But forget the jargon. If I stop you from checking, my light only has to live for 15 minutes.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: 15 minutes does not sound long.
[00:10:51] Speaker A: It is an eternity when somebody is narrating your child's death into your ear.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: So the mother hears no reply. And that little bubble on her phone just sits there, unread.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: The handler notices her attention drifting and snaps eyes forward. I told you not to contact anyone.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: He's guessing.
[00:11:10] Speaker A: Maybe. Or he hears the taps, the change in breathing, the car signal clicking, skill to mammers listen to behavior they don't need to see. The room when the victim keeps describing it through sound that feels important.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: This isn't just fancy AI. It's old fashioned human manipulation. Wearing a new mask.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Exactly. The clone opens the door. The operator walks through it.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: What does she tell her to do with the 15,000?
[00:11:36] Speaker A: First he asks what bank she uses, then whether she has cash, a debit card, access to cryptocurrency. He's testing the exits, like shaking every
[00:11:45] Speaker B: window in the house.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: And when she says her bank is six minutes away, his tone softens. That's another trick. He tells her she's doing well, says her daughter will be safe if she stays calm.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: The man terrorizing her becomes the only person offering relief, right?
[00:12:01] Speaker A: Threat, relief. Threat, relief. Pretty soon, obeying him feels like the only way forward.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: And she turns into the bank parking
[00:12:10] Speaker A: lot, still on the phone, still hearing the occasional sob, still believing every second she waits is a second her daughter suffers.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: What do you think, Nick? At that point, can facts even get in?
[00:12:23] Speaker A: Not easily, but sometimes another human being can.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: She's in the bank parking lot with that voice still in her ear. What does he tell her to do?
[00:12:32] Speaker A: He quotes it precisely, his voice gone cold. Do not hang up. Put the phone in your purse with the line open. Do not look at anyone. If the teller asks questions, you are buying a used boat.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: A used boat, Nick. If I ever tell a bank teller I need 15 grand in cash for a boat, call the feds immediately.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Especially if you've never willingly stepped on a boat.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: I get seasick looking at a bathtub out here.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: It's absurd. Inside that call, it's a lifeline. She doesn't have to think. She just repeats what he gives her.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Why a boat?
[00:13:07] Speaker A: The logic is this. Private sale, cash purchase. Plausible enough to explain a large withdrawal. Difficult to verify quickly. I've seen some mammers use used cars. Home repairs, family loans, antique furniture. Ordinary reasons shaped into little crowbar.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: And banks ask questions because they've seen this before.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: They do. The handler knows that, too. He coaches around the guardrails. Don't say ransom. Don't say emergency. Don't say someone told you to withdraw it.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: The criminal hands the victim the answers to the fraud questionnaire.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: Exactly. So the teller can't just hear the answer. She has to see the person giving it.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: She walks in, trembling, shoulders tight, purse
[00:13:51] Speaker A: held close because the phone is inside. She asks for $15,000, all in large
[00:13:57] Speaker B: bill, and says it's for the world's least convincing boat.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Painting the scene, the teller. Let's call her. Maria asks what kind. The mother stares. The handler is whispering through the purse, but she can't make out the answer.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: Please let him say canoe.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: He says fishing boat. She repeats it too loudly. A fishing boat. Oh no.
Maria notices three things. The customer's hands are shaking. She keeps glancing at her purse, and when Maria says The withdrawal may take a few minutes. The customer flinches as if somebody struck
[00:14:33] Speaker B: her because delay sounds dangerous.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Maria lowers her voice.
Is someone telling you to take out this money? The mother shakes her head too fast.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: That answer is practically blinking in Morse code.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: In the change in tone, her voice is hushed. Observing the intervention, Maria slides a piece of paper across the counter. Four words. Are you in danger?
The mother reads it. Her mouth opens, but nothing comes out from inside the purse. The handler says, what is taking so long?
[00:15:07] Speaker B: He can hear them.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Not clearly, but enough. The mother writes one word. Daughter.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: That teller just entered the story.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: And Maria doesn't blurt out, this is a scam. Smart move. A terrified person might bolt. She says the cache needs a manager and guides her into a site office, buying time.
Time is poison to the scheme. Another employee quietly calls police. Maria asks for the daughter's real number and writes it down. They call from a bank phone.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Does she answer first call?
[00:15:41] Speaker A: No. The mother nearly collapses. The handler hears the silence and turns vicious again. Leave now. She's dead if you don't leave.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: And this is the standoff, not guns in a parking lot. Two voices fighting for control of one frightened person.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Exactly. Maria points to the bank phone and says, one more time.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: Come on.
[00:16:04] Speaker A: Second call goes to voicemail. Then a text arise from the daughter. Mom, I'm okay. Why are you calling?
[00:16:10] Speaker B: I just felt my whole body unclench.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: The mother doesn't trust it yet. That's how deep the call has gone. She says he could have her phone.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Of course she does. A text is weak evidence after you've heard your child cry.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: So Maria asks a question only the daughter can answer. Something ordinary.
What did you spill on the white couch last Thanksgiving?
[00:16:30] Speaker B: Please stay. Red wine.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: Purple sports drink. The daughter replies, the grape stuff. Dad still brings it up.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Here she is.
[00:16:36] Speaker A: There she is. The mother pulls the phone from her purse. The handler is still talking, threatening, ordering, trying to rebuild the room. She looks at Maria and Maria nods.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: And she hangs up.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: She does. The call lasted 17 minutes.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: 17 minutes and it moved her from frozen peas to a bank vault.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: Exactly. And she was lucky. The bank slowed everything down. In other cases, the caller sends a victim straight to a bitcoin atm, stays on speaker and talks him through feeding in the cash and scanning a code.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: And once that cryptocurrency moves, recovery gets
[00:17:10] Speaker A: very difficult, very fast. I worked fraud cases where victims completed one payment and the criminal immediately invented a second reason. A fee. A second hostage. A problem with the transfer.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Because payment doesn't end the emergency. It teaches the criminal. The emergency is profitable.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Right? At the bank, the teller broke the spell before the money moved. At a convenience store Bitcoin machine. The intervention might come from a clerk, a stranger in line, or a family member who sees the person trembling.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: That sounds like a lot to put on a bystander.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: It is. But one calm question can interrupt the tunnel. Are you being told to stay on the phone? Not. Are you foolish? Not. How could you believe this? Just a question that returns choice.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Jane closes doors, curiosity opens one.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: And police arrive at the bank expecting a robbery. Then realize the robber is a voice hundreds or thousands miles away.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Maybe with the rooster.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: The rooster has retained counsel.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: Of course he has.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: The mother finally reaches her daughter by voice. The real daughter says, mom, I'm fine. Same voice, same inflection. But now those words have daylight around
[00:18:16] Speaker B: and the mother starts crying. For real?
[00:18:19] Speaker A: Yes. Relief first, then embarrassment, then anger. We need to talk about that middle feeling because it keeps victims quiet.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Let me guess, she says, I should have known.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: Almost every victim does. Smart people, careful people. Doctors, judges, teachers, accountants. They replay the call afterward with information they did not have during it. And they convict themselves.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: That's an unfair trial.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Completely unfair. Adrenaline doesn't care how educated you are. Your vision narrows, time speeds up, and the contradiction you'd spot tomorrow slips right past you. Today.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: Joe, I would never fall for that is comforting nonsense.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: It's a story we tell ourselves because vulnerability is unpleasant. I spent 25 years around fraud and I still don't claim immunity. The right lie does not attack your iq. It attacks your responsibility.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: The part of you that says, if I waste time and this is real, I'll never forgive myself.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: That sentence is the engine. Scammers don't need you to be gullible. They need you to be loving, reachable and rushed.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Okay, no lecture, no laminated 12 point checklist. What changes the ending?
[00:19:27] Speaker A: A little friction? Something prearranged that the caller cannot scrape from public life. A family safe word and not the dog's name. Please. No. Not your street birthday mascot, favorite team, or the thing printed on six birthday posts.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: Make it ridiculous.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Ridiculous is memorable. Taxidermy, lasagna?
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Absolutely not. I refuse to say that in a crisis.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Which means you'll remember it.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Fine. Taxidermy with znja. Our listeners are now judging both of us.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: Good. Let them judge. It'll stick. If an emergency call comes, ask for the phrase no phrase. The voice alone does not prove who's talking.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: But what if the real person is panicked and forgets?
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Then you verify another way Hang up and call the number you already know. Call a spouse, roommate, friend, school, workplace, somebody outside the story. Never use the number the caller gives you.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: And if the handler says hanging up will get someone hurt.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: That demand is not proof of danger. It is evidence that the caller fears verification.
A demand that you remain isolated is not proof the emergency is real. It is evidence that the story may not survive contact with another person.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: And if it could be a real
[00:20:46] Speaker A: kidnapping, contact law enforcement immediately. Give them the incoming number, exact demands, payment instructions, and anything you heard. Ask for proof of life, but do not feed.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: The caller answered, meaning don't say, is this Emma? Are you at the lake?
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Right. Ask an open question tied to private history. What did you spill on the couch? Better yet, use the safe phrase you established before the crisis.
[00:21:12] Speaker B: Nick, here's what bothers me. Families hear this and think the solution is to delete every video.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: You can reduce exposure, but you cannot build safety around perfect secrecy. Voices appear in school clips, work, webinars, voicemail, greetings, sports interviews. The stronger defense is changing what counts as proof.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: A voice used to be proof.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: Not anymore. A face on a screen may not be proof. Either identity now needs a second channel or a private fact.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: That sounds cold.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: It's not. You can love someone and verify them. In fact, verification is what love looks like when criminals can imitate sound.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Ooh, that one stays with me.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Even when the money never leaves the bank, the fear can linger. Victims describe lost sleep, panic, and a jolt every time an unknown number appears. After hearing a convincing imitation of someone they love, they may struggle to trust what once they felt unmistakably real.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: So even without losing money, the damage can last.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: Exactly. Stopping the withdrawal prevents the financial loss. It does not erase the emotional aftermath. Fraud leaves receipts that never show up on a bank account.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: And that's why people shouldn't mock the victim.
[00:22:27] Speaker A: Never mock the criminal's rooster. Mock the used boat script. Do not mock the parent whose body believed a child was in danger.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Fair distinction.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: When I interviewed victims, the useful question was not why did you fall for it? It was, what did the caller make? Impossible for you to check. That reveals the method. Isolation, isolation, urgency, emotional recognition, and a payment rail designed to move faster than doubt.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: There's another weird family solution. I like agree in advance that nobody in the family will ever be offended by a verification notification call.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: That is excellent. Make skepticism a family courtesy. If sue calls me asking for $10,000 and I call her back, she doesn't say, how dare you?
[00:23:13] Speaker B: I say, why do you think I have $10,000.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: Then I call the feds about your boat.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: No boat. We covered this.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: Exactly. Rehearse the awkward part. Now pick the phrase. Pick the relative who can verify and agree on one rule.
Secrecy means somebody makes a second call. Not because you're paranoid, because you're designing for the five minutes when you may not think clearly.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: I keep coming back to the mother at that counter. The teller slides over four.
Are you in danger? It's so small.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: Small interventions interrupt big crimes. The mother did not need a cybersecurity seminar. She needed one person to slow the clock.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: And what happens between the mother and daughter afterward?
[00:23:58] Speaker A: Afterward, Mother and daughter make a family agreement. If a crisis call comes, verify. If the caller forbids verification, verify. Faster.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: Their safe word.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: I'm not telling you. That would somewhat defeat the concept. Sue.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: Look at the former federal agent protecting operational security.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: Occasionally, the training resurfaces.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: Okay, final gut check. Unknown number. A loved one is crying. Somebody demands money. Your body says, move. Now what do you do?
[00:24:26] Speaker A: Stop moving. Find another phone. Call the person using a number you already have. Bring in someone else. If there is any possibility of real danger, call law enforcement.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: No gift cards, no cryptocurrency kiosk, no
[00:24:40] Speaker A: secret used boat, no payment. While the only evidence is controlled by the person demanding it.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: The technology is new. The trap feels ancient.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: That's right. A frightened voice, a ticking clock. A demand that love prove itself with money. And the answer is not to love less. It is to pause long enough to make love. Verify.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Call your people tonight. Pick a ridiculous phrase. Make it something no public post, birthday quiz, or clever algorithm can guess.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: And if the phone rings tomorrow with the worst story you can imagine, remember this. The voice may be familiar. The emergency may feel real, but panic is not proof.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: Slow the clock.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: Break the isolation.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: Verify the person, then act. That's the gut check. And before we go, thanks for listening to behind the Scams, part of the SOS Media Network.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: Stamp Out Scams is the nonprofit organization under the umbrella of the SOS Media Network, focused on helping people spot the setup before the money moves.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: And if we've helped you or someone you love, please consider donating that support keeps these alerts coming and helps us reach the next family before a scammer does.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: Stay skeptical, stay connected. And remember, a second call can stop a first rate scam.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: This is Sue. Bye for now.
