Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to behind the Scams. I'm Nick, and as always, I'm joined by my favorite co host, who just happens to be my lovely wife, Sue.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: That introduction still works on me, which is either sweet or proof that repetition is a powerful persuasion tactic.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: And that right there is not a bad place to start.
Today we're talking about artificial intelligence and scams, not as a science fiction problem, not as something coming years from now, but as fraud tradecraft. That is already changing how criminals work. In 2026, the FBI has reported that cyber enabled losses have climbed into the tens of billions, with cryptocurrency and AI related complaints among the most costly categories. And the agency now warns that criminals are using fake social profiles, voice clones, realistic videos, and pressure tactics to separate people from money and personal information.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: The part that keeps bothering me is that people are still being told to look for the old warning signs. The misspelled email, the odd grammar, the bad logo.
But the new versions don't always look sloppy. They can sound polished, they can sound personal, and in some cases, they can sound like someone you love.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Exactly.
AI has not invented an entirely new motive. Criminals still want money, credentials, access or control.
What AI changes is scale, speed, personalization, and believability.
A phishing message can be tailored to your job. A romance scammer can maintain warm daily conversation with dozens or hundreds of people.
A fake executive can appear in a generated video, and a grandchild in distress can be created from a short public audio clip.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: So today we're going to slow it down.
We'll talk about how these scams actually work, why smart people get trapped, what to do if money has already gone out the door, and how families and small businesses can build a verification habit before the call, text, invoice or video meeting arrives.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: And we'll say this up front, if you've been targeted or if you sent money, this episode is not here to shame you.
These are engineered encounters.
Fraud crews design them to overload your judgment, isolate you from help, and hurry you past normal safeguards.
The answer is not embarrassment. The answer is interruption. Documentation, reporting, and support.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: Let's start with the basics. When we say AI powered scam, what are we really talking about?
Because some people hear that and think it means a robot is calling from a basement somewhere wearing a ski mask.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: The ski mask may still be human.
AI is the amplifier in an investigation. I'd separate this into three layers.
First, targeting criminals. Gather information from social media data breaches, public records, business websites, and prior leaks.
Second, persuasion. They use generated text, voice Images and video to make the approach feel legitimate and personal.
Third extraction. They steer the victim into payment channels that are fast, hard to reverse or confusing.
Wire transfers, crypto kiosks, gift cards, payment apps, or credential handoffs.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: So the scam is still a human manipulation system. But AI lets criminals make the bait look custom made.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: That's right. When I worked financial crimes cases, one of the first things we looked for was the pressure mechanism.
What made the victim act before checking in 2026. AI helps criminals make that pressure more believable.
They can mimic a boss's writing style. They can create a familiar voice. They can produce a fake document that looks like it belongs in your workflow.
The key is still urgency, wrapped in trust.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Let's take the family emergency call. A grandparent answers the phone. The voice sounds like a grandson or granddaughter. It's shaking, rushed, maybe crying.
I was in an accident. I'm at the police station. Please don't call mom. The lawyer is going to explain.
That used to be a scam with a stranger pretending over the phone.
Now it may include a cloned voice and that bypasses the old instinct of I'd know my family's voice.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: The Federal Trade Commission has specifically warned that scammers can use a short audio clip from social media to get imitate a loved one in an emergency scheme.
The defense is beautifully low tech. Hang up, call the person back on a number you already know and use a family verification phrase that is not posted anywhere online.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: I like the family phrase because it gives people permission to pause.
You're not being cold. You're not ignoring an emergency.
You're following the family plan and the
[00:05:17] Speaker A: scammer hates the that pause.
They'll say do not hang up. They'll say if you call anyone else, I'm in more trouble.
They may bring in a second voice, the fake attorney, the fake officer, the fake hospital administrator. That layered authority is there to keep you inside the script and payment tells you a lot.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: If the solution to the emergency is gift cards, a wire transfer crypto or or cash into a bitcoin kiosk.
Stop.
Real courts and hospitals don't solve crises with gift card numbers read over the phone.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: That brings us to romance and relationship investment scams.
The cftc, sec, FINRA and state regulators have been warning about these long con schemes where a stranger builds trust through friendship or romance and eventually steers the victim into a fake investment, often involving cryptocurrency.
The CFTC's 2026 public education campaign specifically warned that criminals exploit dating Apps, social media, messaging platforms, and artificial intelligence. And that moving conversations to encrypted apps can be a warning sign.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: This is where the word romance scam can almost make the crime sound smaller than it is.
It is not just someone lying about being attractive or available.
It's grooming. It's constant contact.
It's remembering birthdays, asking about grandkids, responding to loneliness, and then slowly attaching financial decisions to affection or trust.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: AI can help that operation scale.
A criminal group can run Persona engines, fake profiles with generated photos, scripted backstories, polished translations, and chatbots that maintain rapport.
The scammer may only step in personally when the relationship is ready for the money move.
That money move may look like a trading app, a crypto dashboard, or a private investment opportunity.
The victim sees fake profits, then tries to withdraw. And suddenly there are taxes, fees, account unlocks, fines, or one last deposit.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: And it often starts somewhere ordinary. A wrong number text, a dating profile, a social media message, a professional networking note.
Then they move the person to WhatsApp or Telegram because it's private, fast. And outside the guardrails of the original
[00:07:56] Speaker A: platform, businesses are seeing another version. AI generated messages and deep fake verification and business email compromise.
A finance employee gets an invoice that looks right with wording that sounds like the executive.
The follow up call sounds like the executive.
In more expensive attacks, the video may be synthetic or manipulated.
The instruction is always narrow. Pay this vendor right now. Change the account details. Bypass the normal approval because the deal is sensitive.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: Which is why the defense can't just be. Does this email look weird?
It has to be a process.
If a payment instruction changes, verify through a known channel, not the phone number in the email, not the link in the message, the number you already have in your vendor file, or a callback to the executive through normal company channels.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: And for consumers, we're seeing fake bank fraud alerts and fake government alerts that use AI to sound calm and official.
The message says there has been suspicious activity. The agent tells you your money is at risk. They may instruct you to move funds to a secure safety locker or a government account.
Those phrases should set off every alarm bell. There is no government account where you park personal savings for safety because a stranger on the phone told you to.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: They'll also say, do not tell the bank teller.
That one makes me furious because it turns the teller, the person who might save you, into the enemy.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: That is classic diversion in law enforcement. When we saw a victim coached to lie to a bank, we knew the script had moved into the Extraction phase.
The scammer may tell the victim to say the wire is for home repairs, family help, or a private purchase.
They may stay on the phone during the bank visit. They may route the victim to a crypto kiosk and walk them through the deposit.
Their goal is to defeat every human intervention between the victim and the loss.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: These scams can sound abstract until you hear what happened to real people.
And I think that matters because the details show how quickly a normal day can become a high pressure crisis.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: Let's start with a case reported by CBC Marketplace.
Marilyn Crawford, an Ontario senior, received a call involving someone who sounded like her grandson.
The story was that he had been arrested after stealing a car and needed $9,000 sent for his release.
The family later suspected AI voice cloning because the voice was convincing enough that she was prepared to pay.
That is the emotional engineering of a grandparent scam. Fear, family loyalty, secrecy and urgency. All packed into a few minutes.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: And the detail that jumps out is that Marilyn had reportedly just been awakened by the call.
That matters.
Scammers know that when someone is startled awake, worried, and trying to understand a crisis, the brain is not operating in its normal checking mode. CBC reported one detail that makes the scene feel very real.
Marilyn was certain it was her grandson, Ian.
Even though the voice sounded slightly different, she said it was convincing enough that she agreed to pay.
Her words were heartbreaking.
I was anxious to get the money out. I'd do anything for my grandchildren.
[00:11:43] Speaker A: The caller also used a familiar handoff. First, someone identifies himself as police.
Then the supposed grandson comes on the line. Then the money story appears. Release from custody, urgency and confidentiality.
That layered sequence gives the fraud a false structure. It sounds like a process, even though every part of it is designed to prevent verification. And there's another reported detail that belongs in the true crime anatomy of this.
A taxi was reportedly sent to take her to the bank.
That takes the scam out of the abstract and into logistics.
Now the criminal is not only manipulating a voice on the phone, someone is trying to move the victim physically toward the money. If I were looking at that case file, I'd mark three investigative flags, right?
The impersonated authority figure, the handoff to the supposed victim, and the demand for a payment method that gives the sender very little time to reverse course.
Those are not random details. They are control points.
Each one narrows Marilyn's options and keeps the scammer ahead of verification.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: And he allegedly said not to tell anyone.
That's the old grandparent scam. Wearing newer clothing, the secrecy demand Is the tell if a loved one is truly in trouble. Involving another family member usually helps.
In the scammer's version, another family member is dangerous because they might break the spell. And what stands out to me is not that she was careless.
It's the opposite.
She loved her grandson.
She wanted to protect him.
The scammer took the most honorable instinct in the world and tried to weaponize it. And then a bank teller became the intervention point that is so important.
The teller heard the story, became suspicious, and Marilyn was saved from sending the money.
Sometimes prevention is not a fancy technology tool.
Sometimes it is one alert human being Asking the uncomfortable question at exactly the right moment.
[00:13:59] Speaker A: That teller's hesitation is a key moment.
In a lot of fraud cases, the loss is interrupted by someone outside the emotional blast radius. A teller, a clerk, a family member, even a neighbor who asks, why are you doing this right now?
One calm question can puncture a very elaborate script. And from an investigative standpoint, the amount matters less than the method.
$9,000 is devastating money for many families. But the larger point is that the caller created a closed environment.
Marilyn was not being asked to make a normal financial decision.
She was being pushed into an emergency management role with almost no time to think.
In a real investigation, I'd also want to know how the caller chose the target.
Was the grandson's name publicly visible?
Was there a social media clip that could have supplied a voice sample?
Was the phone number connected to data broker records or a prior breach?
We may not get all of those answers, but asking those questions helps families understand that criminals often arrive with more background information than people expect.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: That's such an important distinction.
We often judge decisions after the fact, when everyone is calm and the truth is obvious.
But in the moment the scammer has staged a crisis, they give you a character to play. Grandmother, mother, loyal partner, responsible employee.
And once you accept that role, Every instruction feels like part of helping.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: That is why I want families to rehearse the interruption before the emergency.
Not a long lecture, just a simple agreement. If someone calls claiming a family crisis and asks for secrecy or money, we hang up and call back through a known number.
If we cannot reach that person, we call another family member.
The scammer may call that rude. I call it good procedure.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: I'd even tell families to write that rule down somewhere simple on the fridge in a shared note in the contacts list.
No emergency money without a callback.
It sounds almost too basic. But basic is good when panic is the weapon. So if marilyn were listening to us right now, the Takeaway would not be you should have known better.
It would be that call was designed to deny you the very thing you needed most.
A quiet minute and another person.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: Exactly. And listeners can practice what I call a calm exit line.
Something like, I'm going to verify this and call back.
You do not need to debate. You do not need to accuse.
You just end the call. If it is real, verification helps. If it is a scam, verification saves you.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: And if the caller says, don't hang up, that is not a command. It is a clue.
A real family emergency can survive a callback.
A scam script usually cannot. And I want to pause on Marilyn for a second because there may be someone listening who got a call like that and still feels embarrassed.
Please hear me.
When you answer a phone and believe your grandson is scared, your first reaction is love.
That is not a weakness. That is humanity.
The criminal is the one who chose to exploit it.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: That's right. The shame belongs on the person running the deception, not the person trying to help family.
From a prevention standpoint, we want to protect that loving impulse with a process.
Hang up, call back, verify, and bring in another person. A second example came out of the bay area in 2026.
ABC 7 San Francisco reported that Deborah Del Mastro received a call claiming her adult daughter had been kidnapped. She heard what sounded like her daughter's frightened voice.
The caller kept her under pressure for hours and directed her to wire 5,400. $400 to Mexico from multiple locations.
Only afterward did she reach her daughter directly and learn she was safe at work. The money was gone. But the broader lesson is still there. A familiar voice during an emergency is not enough.
You still need a separate callback on a known number.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Debra later said she was ready to do anything to save her daughter, to protect her, to. To get her back.
That is the emotional trap. The criminal does not need the victim to believe every detail forever.
He needs her to believe long enough to move the money. ABC 7 reported that the caller claimed Sarah had been kidnapped by a Mexican drug cartel after seeing something she was not supposed to see.
Then Debra heard the voice crying, apologizing, saying she was scared, and it was cut off.
That little cutoff is a tactic, too.
It gives the victim just enough emotional proof, then removes the chance to ask questions. The way Debra described the voice is chilling because it was not a long conversation.
It was a burst of terror. Terror.
I love you, Mom. I'm so sorry. I'm so scared.
And then it was cut off.
That tiny clip did two things at once.
It convinced her the threat was real. And it prevented her from asking the one question only Sarah would know how to answer.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: The caller then controlled her movement. He reportedly barked instructions.
Don't speak. Get dressed, get out. Do this now. And kept her engaged for roughly five hours.
That is not random cruelty. It is operational control.
If she pauses, calls, Sarah, calls police, or talks to a teller, the scheme collapses. Investigators lens controlled and precise.
From an investigative lens, that five hour window is important.
It creates more touch points, phone numbers, call duration, wire locations, transaction timestamps, recipient details, surveillance possibilities, and maybe device or routing clues.
Victims sometimes think small details do not matter, but they do.
The gas station, the wire counter, the time on the receipt, the phone number that kept calling. Those can all become pieces of the timeline.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: She was directed to wire money from multiple locations, which also matters.
Moving someone around physically keeps them busy, tired and focused on instructions.
It limits the quiet moment where they might think.
Wait, let me call my daughter.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: ABC 7 reported that the caller opened with something almost conversational.
Who is this? And when Debra asked the same question back, he said, someone you need to talk to.
That is a control move. He does not identify himself in a way she can verify. He creates mystery, then immediately turns the call into a crisis.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: That one is especially hard because it lasted for hours.
The scammer wasn't just lying.
He was controlling the pace, the information, and the victim's access to other people.
That's why we keep coming back to the same rule.
If the call demands immediate money and tells you not to talk to anyone, treat that as a red flag, not as proof the emergency is real.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: And the Deborah Delmastro case shows the same pattern with an even higher emotional voltage.
A fake kidnapping call is designed to shut down every normal safeguard.
The caller creates terror, then supplies the instructions that seem to offer relief.
They say where to go, how much to send, who not to contact, and how to explain the transaction.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: If someone asks, and because the voice sounds like the daughter, the victim's brain is already halfway convinced.
That's what makes AI voice misuse so dangerous.
It does not have to be perfect.
It only has to be convincing enough during panic, right?
[00:22:53] Speaker A: A cloned or manipulated voice in a stressful call has an unfair advantage because listeners are not analyzing audio quality.
They are listening for distress. They hear fear, and they respond as parents, spouses, grandparents or friends.
That human response is exactly what the criminal is counting on.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: So maybe the family rule should be emergencies do not get more private just because they are scary.
If someone says, do not call anyone, that is the moment to call someone.
[00:23:29] Speaker A: One more point on that case.
After the money was wired, she was reportedly told her daughter would be released at a grocery store.
That keeps the emotional story going past the payment. It delays discovery. It gives the criminals more time while the victim moves to the next location, still believing rescue is possible. There's also a timing lesson. Deborah reportedly called Sarah only after she reached the release location and could not find her.
That is when the story broke.
The lesson for listeners is painful but practical.
Make the direct call before the money moves, not after the release point fails.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: I keep thinking about that grocery store detail.
It sounds specific and specific can feel believable.
But scammers use specificity like a prop, a location, a name, a dollar amount, a time limit.
Those details can make a false story feel organized.
[00:24:32] Speaker A: That is a very good point. A detailed story is not the same thing as a verified story.
I have seen victims handed scripts for what to say at the bank, what to say to a wire service clerk, even what to say if a family member calls.
The more scripted the victims behavior behavior becomes, the more likely it is that someone else is controlling the scene. I would also look closely at the payment routing. Was the money sent to an individual name, a business name or a pickup location?
Did the sender receive a reference number?
Were there repeated attempts or rejected transactions?
Every payment channel leaves a different kind of trail. And investigators move fastest when the victim preserves the original receipts and does not try to reconstruct them from memory later.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: So the listener test is simple. Am I being rushed, isolated and instructed?
If all three are happening at once, I do not care how real the voice sounds, I stop and verify. And if Deborah or someone like her is listening, I would want to say you were put through a. A staged trauma.
You were not simply fooled by a phone call.
You were kept in fear, kept moving, and kept away from the one thing that could have ended it. A direct connection with your daughter.
That is a cruel design and it is not your fault.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: And for families hearing that, the first response should be care not cross examination.
Before asking why ask are you safe?
Before asking how much, say I'm glad you told me.
That gives the victim enough ground to keep talking. The third example is a romance investment scam in Hong Kong.
Public reports citing Hong Kong police described a female insurance professional in her 50s who lost more than 26 million Hong Tong dollars, about $3.3 million in a fake cryptocurrency investment scheme.
The contact began around an insurance inquiry, moved into WhatsApp, developed into an online romantic relationship, and Then shifted into a supposed crypto platform.
The app showed huge paper gains, but when she tried to withdraw, the request was denied, and the people behind the relationship disappeared.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: And what makes that case especially chilling is how ordinary the doorway was.
A business referral, an insurance conversation, A person who seemed connected to someone else.
It did not begin with a stranger saying, send me millions.
It began with credibility borrowed from a normal social chain. The Hong Kong case has a different rhythm.
According to reports citing Hong Kong police, the first contact was not framed as romance at all.
It reportedly began with someone presented as an insurance customer, then shifted through an introduction to a man known as uncle who claimed to work in the car trade. The Hong Kong story has its own true crime breadcrumb trail.
Reports say the deception began in July of the prior year, and over about six months, the relationship and the investment pitch advanced together.
That time span matters long. Con criminals are patient because patience makes the final ask feel less sudden.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: That kind of staged introduction is important.
It lowers suspicion because the relationship does not arrive as a stranger pushing crypto. It arrives through a business context, then becomes personal, then becomes romantic, and only later becomes financial.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: Reports say the fake trading app eventually showed gains of more than 800%.
That is such a powerful psychological leverage because the victim is not just hoping anymore.
She is looking at a screen that appears to confirm she made a smart decision.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Case structure analysis measured the accomplice, called the platform owner is another useful detail.
In some scam structures, one Persona builds emotional trust, and a second Persona supplies technical authority.
The romantic partner says, I care about you. The platform expert says, I know how to manage the wallet.
Together, they create both intimacy and credibility. And the payment trail was not just one transaction.
Public reports describe roughly 22 million Hongtals transferred to multiple mule accounts and about $4 million handed over in cash to accomplices.
That combination matters. Mule accounts fragment the money.
Cash handoffs make tracing harder, and multiple payments create commitment. The victim has already invested so much that stopping can feel like admitting the loss.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: And the cash handoffs make the story feel less like an online only crime.
More than half a million US dollars in cash reportedly handed to associates at locations in Hong Kong means there were people willing to appear in the real world to keep the deception moving.
That can make a victim think this must be legitimate. There are actual people involved, but physical presence is not proof it can be part of the machinery.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: In that kind of case, the money movement tells you the organization is not just one charming person behind a phone.
Multiple mule accounts and cash pickups suggest a Network recruiters, account holders, handlers, possibly people moving funds across borders. The romance Persona is the front door. The financial infrastructure behind it is where the larger criminal enterprise shows itself.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: That case also pushes back against a stereotype.
She worked in insurance, she understood financial products.
But the scam did not depend on ignorance. It depended on trust built slowly. Fake proof of profits and a relationship that made the investment feel personal.
[00:31:08] Speaker A: And the Hong Kong case gives us the long conversion.
Instead of a sudden emergency, the pressure builds slowly. The scammer does not start with send me millions. They start with attention.
They start with familiarity.
They establish a rhythm. Good morning messages, personal stories, encouragement, maybe even small investment screenshots that appear to prove the platform works.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: And by the time money enters the conversation, it may not feel like a pitch.
It feels like advice from someone who has become emotionally important.
That is very different from a cold call saying buy this coin.
[00:31:52] Speaker A: The fake app or website is part of the theater.
It shows balances, profits charts and withdrawal screens.
Those numbers can be completely fabricated, but they create what I'd call false confirmation.
The victim thinks, I can see the money growing.
Then when they try to withdraw, the criminals introduce the next gate.
Taxes, fees, verification deposits, anti money laundering holds or account unlock charges, investigators checklist, deliberate. And if someone brings me screenshots of a fake trading platform, I'm not just looking at the dollar amounts.
I'm looking at domain names, app download links, customer service chats, wallet addresses, deposit instructions, IP clues if available, and whether the same language appears in other complaints.
Fraud crews reuse infrastructure patterns can connect one victim's complaint to many others. And when the online boyfriend and the so called expert went silent after the withdrawal request, that silence was not confusion, it was the exit.
In fraud cases, disappearance after withdrawal pressure is often the moment the victim discovers what the criminals knew. From the start, the account balance was theater and the money had already moved.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: Which is why I saw my profits is not the same thing as proof.
A scam website can show anything.
The real test is whether you can withdraw money to your own bank account without paying more money first.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: That is great, a crucial line. If you have to pay money to get your money, stop and get outside help. Do not argue with the platform. Do not pay one more tax or fee.
Preserve the records and contact your financial institution and the appropriate reporting agencies.
[00:33:47] Speaker B: And that's where compassion matters.
By the time someone realizes they may be trapped, they may have retirement money, borrowed money or family money. Inside the scam, the shame is enormous.
That is exactly why the next voice they hear from us has to be steady.
Stop sending money, preserve records and bring in help. In that Hong Kong case. I also want people to notice how normal the first step sounded.
An insurance inquiry, a conversation, a move to WhatsApp.
None of that by itself screams criminal enterprise.
That is why long con scams are so hard.
They do not begin at the finish line.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: And the scammers dialogue in a case like that is usually soft. At first you seem thoughtful.
I like how you think.
I would never pressure you.
Then later, I made money this way. And I want you to benefit too.
That shift from affection to opportunity is a warning sign. Especially when the opportunity lives inside an unverified app.
[00:35:06] Speaker B: And when withdrawal is blocked, the language changes again suddenly. It is not romantic, it is administrative.
Pay the tax, unlock the account, complete verification, one more deposit.
That bureaucratic tone can make the scam feel legitimate. But it is still a pressure tactic.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: Exactly. Old scams were often limited by time, geography and the skill of the individual caller. New scams can be automated, personalized and tested at scale.
But when I stripped the technology away, I still asked the same old who gained trust, who created urgency, who isolated the victim, who controlled the payment path, and where did the money go after the first transfer? These cases also show why we should be careful with the phrase AI scam.
AI may be the tool that makes the voice, the relationship, or the fake platform more persuasive. But the crime is still organized social engineering.
The people behind it are studying how victims respond, adjusting scripts and exploiting normal human trust.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: When you put the three examples side by side, they also show that AI enabled scams do not all move at the same speed.
One is minutes, one is hours, one is weeks or months.
But the architecture is familiar. Isolate the person, control the story, and make every request feel like the next necessary step.
[00:36:44] Speaker A: Let Sue's point carry into the analysis.
And that is the common thread in all three examples.
AI or suspected AI made the approach more believable. But the money moved because the criminal controlled emotion, timing and isolation.
The safeguard is not cynicism, it is process, stop, verify through a separate channel, bring in another person, and never let a stranger keep you alone inside their script. Firm but compassionate evidence, focused, softened before the shame line.
That is why I always tell victims, do not delete the messages because you feel humiliated.
Do not crop the screenshots to make them look cleaner. Do not throw away the receipt because it hurts to look at it. I understand the instinct, but unedited evidence preserves the trail.
Dates, usernames, phone numbers, tiny spelling patterns, wallet addresses and transaction IDs can matter later. Drengen why prevention has to be both emotional and procedural.
Emotional because people need permission to pause without feeling guilty.
Procedural because families and businesses need rules that do not depend on perfect judgment under stress.
Verification phrases, known number callbacks, dual approvals, cooling off periods for unusual transfers.
Those are not signs of mistrust. They are safety rails.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: And if you are the trusted person who gets the call for help, this is is your script.
I believe you.
I'm not here to judge you.
We're going to stop contact, protect what we can.
Save the evidence and report it.
That sentence can lower the temperature in the room.
It tells the victim they are not alone and it moves everyone toward action.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: So before we leave these real life cases, here's the investigator's summary.
Marilyn's case moved through family fear.
Deborah's move through terror and control.
The Hong Kong case moved through trust, romance and fake investment proof.
Different scripts, same architecture. The criminal identifies a trusted emotion, builds a sealed room around the victim and tells them not to pause, verify, or involve anyone who could interrupt the loss.
Prevention is not cynicism, it is process.
Stop the conversation, verify through a separate channel, preserve the evidence, and bring in a trusted person.
That sequence can break the criminal's control before the money moves or preserve the trail if it already has.
[00:39:35] Speaker B: Let's talk about what this feels like for the person in the middle of it.
Because from the outside, people say, I would never fall for that.
But inside the scam, you're not calmly analyzing a spreadsheet. You may be scared, embarrassed, lonely, flattered, rushed, or trying to protect someone you love is.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: The scammers use cognitive overload. They stack emotion, authority, technical confusion and time pressure. They interrupt sleep. They keep the person on the phone. They move the conversation to a private app.
They tell the victim not to involve family, a banker, a lawyer or law enforcement.
That secrecy loop is not incidental. It is the control mechanism.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: And shame keeps the loop alive. After the money is gone, people think, how did I not see it?
But these scams are engineered to be believable. They are tested, they are revised.
They are run by people who know how urgency changes decision making.
[00:40:46] Speaker A: I want listeners to hear this clearly. The fact that a criminal fooled you does not mean you are foolish.
It means a professional deception system found a pressure point.
Our job is to get you out of isolation and into action.
The earlier you interrupt the chain, the more options you may have.
[00:41:07] Speaker B: And if you're listening because someone in your family was scammed, please don't start with interrogation.
Start with safety.
I'm glad you told me. We're going to handle this together.
That one sentence can be the difference between someone sharing evidence and someone retreating deeper into silence.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: If this happens to you, stop the conversation.
Do not send another dollar code, gift card number, crypto transfer, ID photo or screenshot.
Urgency is the scammer's weapon. The pause is yours.
[00:41:45] Speaker B: Save the trail, then get help.
Screenshots, phone numbers, wallet addresses, receipts, emails and transaction IDs.
Do not delete or clean it up because you feel embarrassed.
Evidence is not failure. It is the map out.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: Then call the bank or payment platform immediately report through the right official channel and bring in one trusted person.
IC3, the FTC, identitytheft.gov, the SEC, CFTC, USPIS, and local law enforcement all have roles. Depending on the scam, secrecy is part of the control.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: So instead of giving listeners a long checklist, let's name the pattern.
In all three stories, the criminal created a private reality and then tried to keep the victim inside it.
[00:42:40] Speaker A: Exactly.
Marilyn was pulled toward the bank. Deborah was kept moving and frightened. The Hong Kong victim was kept inside a fake relationship and a fake investment dashboard.
Different pressure, same confinement.
[00:42:56] Speaker B: The simplest defense is not paranoia. It is interruption.
Hang up.
Verify through a known number.
Bring in another person. Person.
If the story collapses when you pause, it was never a real emergency.
[00:43:13] Speaker A: The bottom line is this AI removes some of the old tells. Bad grammar may disappear. The voice may sound familiar, the message may mention real details from your life, but the criminal still needs you to do something. Move money, reveal credentials, ignore normal verification.
Keep a secret or stay on the line.
That's where we can interrupt the scam.
[00:43:38] Speaker B: And if you remember nothing else from this episode, remember the pause.
Hang up.
Verify.
Call someone you trust.
Save the evidence.
Contact your financial institution.
Report through official channels.
And please remember this.
Needing help in that moment does not mean you failed.
It means you are human, you are not alone, and you do not have to solve it in the same frantic emotional state the scammer created.
[00:44:21] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to behind the Scams, part of the SOS Media Network.
SOS Stamp Out Scams is a 501c3 nonprofit scam prevention organization, and donations are tax deductible as allowed by law.
If this episode helped you share it with someone who might need a calm voice, a practical plan, or just a reminder that they are not alone.
[00:44:45] Speaker B: And maybe set up that family verification phrase before dinner tonight.
Just don't make it something obvious like pop password. We are trying to help the scammers fail not give them a head start.
[00:44:58] Speaker A: Yes, please do not make it password. Make it memorable, private and boring enough that nobody posts it online.
That may be the one time boring is exactly what we want.
[00:45:09] Speaker B: Take care of yourselves and take care of each other. Bye for now.
[00:45:14] Speaker A: Thanks again for listening and bye for now.
